Chorizo que le roba a otro chorizo, tiene mil años de perdón!
Etiqueta: CHURCH
1 JOHN 2:28 PUTS IN TROUBLE THE SO CALLED PRE-TRIBULATION SECRET RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH
Christians who believe in the secret rapture of the faithful church are faced with a problem when they read 1 John 2:28, which says, «And now, little children, abide in him, so that when he appears we may have confidence and not shrink from him in shame at his coming.” ¿But how can anyone shrink from Jesus in shame if his secret coming for His faithful church will be violent, in the blink of an eye? For some to walk away from Jesus in shame, it is necessary that our Lord remains present, visible, and in front of them for a while. A secret and violent abduction of the church to heaven by Christ makes it impossible for anyone to get away in shame from his presence. This passage gets in trouble for those who believe in a pre-tribulation secret rapture of the church.
THE SAINTS: ¿ARE THEY ONLY THOSE THAT THE PAPACY CANONIZES?
By Mario A Olcese
The Truth that the Bible Teaches
The way of selecting the saints of Catholicism is not found in any part of the Bible. In fact, we will never find in the Bible the apostle Peter canonizing any saint or deceased martyr. Contrary to the Catholic belief of a holy minority, the Bible teaches that the saints of the First Century were constituted by most of the believers, for not saying all. The use of the words saint, sanctify, sanctity, and sanctification, is also very common in the New Testament and are applied to the living believers. The saints, for example, refer directly to the believers in general: those baptized and consecrated to Christ’s cause without regard to their gender, age, profession, or social class. All those that lived in purity of character, and in moral and spiritual righteousness, according to Christian doctrine, were called saints. They were not required or asked to perform miracles or any supernatural acts such as levitations, or to have the gift of bi-location or to present stigmata in the body. Neither were they demanded to live in monasteries or cloisters in a strict state of poverty and obligatory celibacy. These Catholic demands cannot be found in any part of the Bible, and especially, in the New Testament.
Married Saints
In the Bible we find that some of the apostles were married and had a family, or home. Peter, for example, the supposed first Pope of Rome, was married. The Bible tells us the following of Peter: “Now when Jesus had come into Peter’s house, He saw his wife’s mother lying sick with a fever” (Matthew 8:14 NKJV). And in 1 Corinthians 9:5 Paul asks as apostles and servants of God: “Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?”. This Cephas was without a doubt the apostle Peter (John 1:42) of whom is said that he had a own mother-in-law. Obviously Cephas or Peter was married or perhaps a widower.
References to Other Saints in the New Testament
We have seen that the holy apostles were married, and perhaps more than one widower. Now we will also see that many of the other believers — the apostles’ disciples — were also living saints. We will analyze a series of interesting passages that will illuminate us on the matter of the Christian sanctity or Christians being saints:
In 2 Corinthians 1:1 we read: “Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, to the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints who are in all Achaia (¡not in heaven!)”. Notice that Paul greets the church of God in Corinth, and all the saints that are in the city of Achaia (not in heaven!). Here Paul equates the Church of God of Corinth with the saints of Achaia. For him, the expressions: ‘Church of God’ and ‘Saints’ meant the same thing. Also, it is clear that those saints were not few and they were all alive. Also II Corinthians 2, verses 5-11, we see Paul and the church forgiving a saint who had been an offender. These would indicate that those saints were imperfect, and some were subject to correction, as it had been the case with Peter himself. In Ephesians 1:1, Paul addresses the Ephesians with the following greeting: “Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints who are in Ephesus (¡not in heaven!), and faithful in Christ Jesus”. Here we see again that living believers in the church at Ephesus were saints and faithful. These were not deceased saints that had been canonized by St. Peter, the supposed first Roman Pope. Neither were they monks or nuns of some religious order. These people were simply converted sinners to the Christian faith, and they were surely from both classes, married and single. Specially, take note of Ephesians 5 verses 21-33. Here we see married saints that should maintain their marriage’s sanctity, that is to say, love and fidelity among the couple, as well as Christ loved his church (His bride) and was devoted to her.
In Philippians 1:1, Paul greets the believers of the city of Philippi, in this way: “Paul and Timothy, bondservants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints (Christians) in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi (¡not in heaven!), with the bishops and deacons (The leaders)”. Here we see that the Christians were saints, the so called “secular” or “lay” members of the Catholicism. But take note that also here all are saints in life or living saints that have not been canonized by Peter, the supposed first Roman Pope.
In Colossians 1:1 ,2, Paul addresses the brethren of Colosse in this way: “Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, to the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are in Colosse (¡Not in heaven!): Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ”. In the same way, take note that Paul addresses the saints and faithful brethren that are in Colosse, a Greek city. These saints were the same flock of God (the congregation), composed of all the believers of that city. Among these saints there were some that were servants and slaves of free Christian believers. To these saints Paul tells them, among other things: “Bondservants, obey in all things your masters according to the flash…”. Notice again that these saints didn’t belong to any religious order, nor did they live in any cloister. These saints equally worked as servants for believing and unbelieving masters. These saints were actually servants, or slaves. Paul refers to bondservants. Today, we have workers for whom the same principles apply. This letter is also directed to the believing couples, to whom the apostle writes: “Wives, submit to your own husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. Husbands, love your wives and do not be bitter toward them. Children, obey your parents in all things, for this is well pleasing to the Lord” (3:18-20). As you can see, the concept of sanctity, or sainthood in the New Testament is far from the concept of the saints of Roman Catholicism.
In Jude 1 we read: “Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James,
to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ”. This letter from Jude is to encourage the saints to «contend earnestly for the faith» and (v.3) to «keep yourselves in the love of God” (v.21). He is writing to saints so that they don’t allow themselves to be influenced by the false teachers who had infiltrated inside the flock of God. Without a doubt Jude was aware of the danger that the saints of God could encounter with false doctrines that were introduced into the church of God. Now let us notice that Jude addresses «those who are called», that are sanctified in God the Father. Well, these saints were «called» by God, but how? Did these perhaps hear a celestial voice as Paul heard once, personal and privately, in route to Damascus? Not necessarily this way. The apostle Paul tells the Thessalonians the following: “to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ” (2 Tess. 2:14). Notice that potential saints are called when they hear the gospel or message of Jesus Christ and they believe in it with all their heart. If you hear Christ’s gospel, then you are being called by God to be a saint, and in this way to reach Jesus Christ glory. The gospel is God’s power to transform men and women and to make them real saints. Paul says it clearly with these solemn words: “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek” (Romans 1:16). And Jesus tells his followers: “You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you”. We see that because Christ’s word —His gospel— has the power to cleanse the sinner and to make him a saint. Tragically millions of Catholics don’t understand this Biblical truth as it is presented.
Only the Saints will Be able to see God
The Bible teaches very clearly that only saints will be able to see God. In Hebrew 12:14 we read: “Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord”. Notice that without the sanctity, holiness, or being a saint, no one will see the Lord. That is; without sanctification, or holiness; that is, being a saint, nobody will be saved. Regrettably the Catholic theology on the topic of sainthood maintains that the saints are few (a handful people) in relation to the total of their parishioners. This simply means that the great majority of Catholics, are not saints, and, therefore, won’t be able to see God or to be saved. Millions of deceased Catholics have not been made saints by the Papacy. These will be deprived for all eternity of seeing God. This also means that our devoted good Catholic friends— already deceased — that didn’t «reach» sainthood, are resting in the grave or in hell and not in heaven in the presence of God. That tragic is the matter! Millions of deceased Catholics that have not been sanctified by the Papacy, will be deprived by the eternity of seeing to God. This means that our devote good Catholic friends — already deceased — that didn’t «reach» the sanctity, are resting in hell but not in heaven where God and His Son lives and reigns.
Now the truth of the matter is that saints will only be saved and they will be able to live with the Lord God forever. Paul is emphatic in this respect when, associating saints that is those who are sanctified, salvation, and glory as he says: “But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ”. Those that are called Christian, but don’t feel like saints, are lost, because if they are not saints, what are they? The answer is only one: Dirty! See you what Paul says in this respect: “For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness” (1 Thess. 4:7). Notice that Paul is emphatic. If someone is not a saint then that person is unclean. And what does the Bible say of the unclean ones? Paul says: “For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God” (Ephesians 5:5). The problem arises in that Catholicism has idealized the sanctity or sainthood, and has transformed it practically into an unreachable level for most human beings. In other words, it is believed in Catholicism that a saint is a pure, perfect, impeccable, devote, good, chaste, celibate, healer, maker of miracles and extraordinary phenomena and with stigmata in the body, praying, poor, hermit, and things like these. But, from where did the great majority of Catholics get this idea Have we forgotten St. Peter, the supposed “first Roman Pope” who was a saint since His conversion? Did he show his colleagues signs of stigmata, levitation, and “bi-location”? We don’t have a single case. Let us return to Peter again: don’t we remember how Peter hesitated and denied his Master three times? (John 13:38) Don’t we remember how Christ responded Peter: «Get behind me, Satan!»? (Mark 8:33). Don’t we remember how Paul had to reprehend his colleague Peter for seeking to observe some Judaic practices and to demand his fellow Christians to observe these? (Gal. 2:11-14). But in spite of all these facts, Peter continued being a saint of God. He was not exempt from errors. One could think that in a moment Peter would give up his faith and that he would not return to the road that had continued with Jesus. But in the Acts of the Apostles we find a valiant, transformed, and convinced Peter who strongly believed that Christ was the Son of God, the King of Israel. He is found celebrating the first council in Jerusalem, and making a strong defense of His Master in front of many unbelieving Jews.
And as for the apostle Paul, didn’t he say that «the good thing that he should do he didn’t do it, and the bad thing that he should not do he did? (Rom. 7:15-25). Do we understand Paul’s struggles, and his human flaws as an imperfect man? Did he stop being a saint of God because he was not completely perfect? Nevertheless, and in spite of his mistakes, he himself demands us to imitate him so that we can also be saints in our present life and win salvation (1 Corinthians 11:1). For Paul, it cannot be salvation without sanctity, as I have already demonstrated above.
Christ’s Church is Holy by nature
There are those who ignore that the church is composed of all baptized believers, as is clear from Acts 2:38-42. It is, then, completely false that the church is only composed of the so called «clergy» («the religious») of Roman Catholicism. Most Catholics don’t seem to understand that they, the so called «lay,» are also part of the church, because for that purpose they were baptized, participating of the sacraments of their church. All those who are baptized are members of Christ’s body, that is to say, members of His church. Now the church is ordered to maintain its sanctity with these words: “…just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless” (Eph. 5:25-27). Well, if the church is composed of all those baptized, and she should be holy, then we conclude that all those baptized practitioners are saints. It’s that simple!
To the Corinthians believers Paul says: “…for God’s temple is sacred, and you are that temple” (1 Cor. 3:17). And to the Colossian believers Paul tells them: “Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. 22But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation” (Col. 1:21,22). Notice the contrast: the saints do good works, versus the infidels that do bad works. If a believer in Christ has renovated his mind to be held to the will of God, he is transformed automatically into a saint. This believer has been sanctified because he has put his faith in Christ, and he has made his expiatory sacrifice in the cross, and he has been baptized for the pardon of his sins. To the saints, Peter tells them: “As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: «Be holy, because I am holy» (1 Peter 1:14,15). Notice that Peter is not saying: «Aspire to be saints, so that I can beatify you and call you saints when you die.» No! What Peter exhorts is that all the believers should be saints, opting to live a pious life so that they can become true obedient children of God.
Each one of us becomes a saint when we don’t conform to the desires that we had in our ignorance and instead we live for the cause and laws of Christ. That is the truth of the matter. Also, Peter doesn’t say that we should perform miracles, or that we should be celibate, monks, hermits, poor, or have stigmata in the body, or levitate to deserve sainthood. Neither does Peter says to the believers that they will first die and then be canonized by him or by any of his supposed successors. What he says is that the believers should live now in sanctity and holiness as true children of God. This is not a Christian option, but rather, an obligation or demand for salvation. Peter wants the people of God be saints or separated from the world in order to fulfill their saving and evangelizing mission. The gospel is preached by example, without a doubt.
The Saints should Be Perfected
Many believe that first the believer should be perfected to be named «saint» of the church. This is simply not true! The apostle Paul writes something very interesting to the believers of Ephesus. These are his words: “It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ” (Eph. 4:11-13). If one examines well these three verses, it will be seen that the saints could be perfected with the help of the apostles, prophets, evangelists, bishops and teachers; that is to say, not by the well called «clergy.» These Christians, or those called «laity» by Catholicism, are the saints mentioned by Paul in this epistle to the Ephesians. Also in 2 Corinthians 7:1 Paul says: “Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God”. It is clear that the saints were far from being perfect, but they could be perfected in the measure that they moved away from the carnal and spiritual contamination. Notice that Paul doesn’t say that to the measure that the saints made miracles, levitation, or stigmatized his body, they would be perfected. On the other hand, in the Bible that strange division of «Clergy» and “Lay” of Catholicism doesn’t exist. On the contrary all believers are in fact part of the (Gr. ‘Kleron’) or Clergy.
Conclusions
The Christian, biblical Church, composed of all baptized believers, is holy in its essence. That is to say, baptized believers are holy because they have been sanctified by Jesus Christ, the Holy Head. They are holy because they have given up the vain way of living that they inherited of their parents to continue for a new one on the way to rightness and truth. They are not extraordinary men that have given up marriage, businesses, children, etc, to live as gody hermits. They are rather common and average men, with their defects and qualities that have decided to follow Christ’s principles and to apply them. Other requirements or demands don’t exist, as for example: to make miracles or supernatural wonders, that is: to levitate or to present stigmata in the body. These are rather married or single individuals: Farmers, peasants, Managers, merchants, workers, servants, housewives, students of schools and universities, etc, that live in harmony with Christ and for Christ.
To seek to make saints a sort of supernatural individuals, besides puritan and godly, it is to twist the true concept of the biblical sanctity. What is clear, according to the New Testament, is that without holiness no one will see God; that is to say, no one will survive (see Hebrews 12:14). The requirement to live with God is the sanctity of life today. But as Catholicism has limited sainthood to only an insignificant minority of their congregation, it would mean that hopelessly the great majority of Catholic that have not «reached» sainthood and the beatification, will be condemned to never see God for all of eternity. And if they won’t see to God—whom will they see?
ES LA IGLESIA LLAMADA “ISRAEL” EN ROMANOS 9:6
Por Michael J. Vlach, Ph.D.
Romanos 9:6 es un pasaje utilizado a veces por los supersesionistas para mostrar que a la iglesia se llama explícitamente Israel. [1] Este versículo dice, «Pero no es que la palabra de Dios haya fallado. Porque no son todos los de Israel son descendientes de Israel. «Algunos ven en la primera mención de» Israel » un concepto de Israel que va más allá de las fronteras étnicas. Por lo tanto, Pablo está supuestamente haciendo una distinción entre Israel étnico y un Israel espiritual que consiste en todos los creyentes, incluyendo a los gentiles. Esta es la opinión de Ridderbos: «Incluso la distinción que hace Pablo entre Jerusalén nacional, entre quien es y quien no es un «Judio», entre «Israel» y «los que son de Israel” (Rom. 2:28 ss; 9.: 6), tiende a un uso que denota a los gentiles creyentes igualmente, y por lo tanto a la iglesia cristiana, como tal, como «Israel.» [2] En referencia a Romanos 9:6-8 Wayne Grudem declara, «Pablo aquí implica que los verdaderos hijos de Abraham, los que son en el sentido más verdadero «Israel,» no son la nación de Israel por descendencia física de Abraham, sino los que han creído en Cristo. «[3] En sus comentarios sobre Rom 9:6, afirma Robertson, «Son los que, además de estar relacionados con Abraham por descendencia natural, también se relacionan a él por la fe, además de los gentiles que están injertados por la fe, que constituyen el verdadero Israel de Dios.» [4]
Este versículo, sin embargo, no es un texto de apoyo para el Supersesionismo como la mayoría de los comentaristas en Romanos 9:6 reconocen. Como ha observado Murray, Rom 9:6 es la enseñanza de que «hay un ‘Israel’ entre el Israel étnico» [5] Pablo no está diciendo que los creyentes gentiles son ahora parte de Israel. En cambio, los Judíos son el verdadero Israel. William Sanday y Arthur C. Headlam aclaran este punto:
Pero San Pablo no pretende aquí distinguir un Israel espiritual (es decir, la Iglesia cristiana) de la Israel carnal, sino afirmar que las promesas hechas a Israel podrían cumplirse incluso si algunos de sus descendientes les fuese negada la entrada en ellos. Lo que afirma es que no todos los descendientes físicos de Jacob son necesariamente herederos de las promesas divinas implícitas en el sagrado nombre de Israel [6].
Por lo tanto, el verdadero israelita es aquel que es un Judio étnico y uno que ha creído en Jesucristo (véase Romanos 2:28-29). Romanos 9:6, por lo tanto, no es un texto de apoyo para la Teología del Reemplazo.
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[1] Los que ven Rom 9:6 que incluye a creyentes gentiles en el concepto de «Israel» son: Ridderbos, Pablo, 336, n. 30; Grudem, Teología Sistemática, 861; Dodd, CH, La Epístola de Pablo a los Romanos (Londres: Hodder & Stoughton, 1932), 155; Typos Goppelt, 140; Ellis, el uso de Pablo del Antiguo Testamento, 137; y Santiago DG Dunn, Romanos 9.16, CMB, vol. 38b (Dallas: Word, 1988), 540; LaRondelle, el Israel de Dios en la profecía, 121; Bright, El Reino de Dios, 226-27. Al comentar sobre Rom 9:6, Orígenes afirma: «Porque si la sentencia respecto al ‘Judio interno» se adoptará, debemos entender que, como hay una raza física de Judíos, así también hay una raza interna de Judíos” .
«Orígenes, Primeros Principios 4.21, ANF 4:370.
[2] Ridderbos, Pablo, 336, n. 30.
[3] Grudem, Teología Sistemática, 861.
[4] O. Palmer Robertson, El Cristo de los Pactos (Phillipsburg, NJ: P & R, 1980), de 40 años.
[5] Murray, La Epístola a los Romanos, 2:09.
[6] William Domingo y Arthur C. Headlam, La Epístola a los Romanos, el ICC (Nueva York: Charles Scribner’s Hijos, 1923), 240. Véase también Douglas Moo, La Epístola a los Romanos, NICNT (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1996), 574. Acerca de Rom 9:6, Gutbrod escribe: «No se nos dice aquí que los cristianos gentiles son el verdadero Israel. La distinción en R. 09:06 no van más allá de lo que se presupone en Jn. 1:47. . . . «Gutbrod Walter», «Israhl, k. t. l. «, en Diccionario Teológico del Nuevo Testamento, vol. 3, ed. Gerhard Kittel (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1965), 387.
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¿Is the Church Called “Israel” in Romans 9:6?
By Michael J. Vlach, Ph.D.
Romans 9:6 is a passage sometimes used by supersessionists to show that the church is explicitly called Israel.[1] This verse reads, “But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel.” Some see in the first mention of “Israel” a concept of Israel that goes beyond ethnic boundaries. Thus, Paul is allegedly making a distinction between ethnic Israel and a spiritual Israel that consists of all believers including Gentiles. This is the view of Ridderbos: “Even the distinction Paul makes within national Jerusalem between who is and who is not a ‘Jew,’ between ‘Israel’ and ‘those who are of Israel’ (Rom. 2:28ff.; 9:6), tends to a usage that denotes the believing gentiles as well and therefore the Christian church as such as “Israel.”[2] In reference to Rom 9:6–8 Wayne Grudem declares, “Paul here implies that the true children of Abraham, those who are in the most true sense ‘Israel,’ are not the nation of Israel by physical descent from Abraham but those who have believed in Christ.”[3] In his comments on Rom 9:6, Robertson states, “It is those who, in addition to being related to Abraham by natural descendency, also relate to him by faith, plus those Gentiles who are ingrafted by faith, that constitute the true Israel of God.”[4]
This verse, though, is not a supporting text for supersessionism as most commentators on Romans 9:6 acknowledge. As Murray has noted, Rom 9:6 is teaching that “there is an ‘Israel’ within ethnic Israel.”[5] Paul is not saying that believing Gentiles are now part of Israel. Instead, believing Jews are the true Israel. William Sanday and Arthur C. Headlam make this point:
But St. Paul does not mean here to distinguish a spiritual Israel (i.e. the Christian Church) from the fleshly Israel, but to state that the promises made to Israel might be fulfilled even if some of his descendants were shut out from them. What he states is that not all the physical descendants of Jacob are necessarily inheritors of the Divine promises implied in the sacred name Israel.[6]
Thus, the true Israelite is one who is a Jew ethnically and one has believed in Jesus Christ (see Romans 2:28–29). Romans 9:6, therefore, is not a supporting text for Replacement Theology.
[1] Those who view Rom 9:6 as including believing Gentiles in the concept of “Israel” include: Ridderbos, Paul, 336, n. 30; Grudem, Systematic Theology, 861; C. H. Dodd, The Epistle of Paul to the Romans (London: Hodder & Stoughton, 1932), 155; Goppelt, Typos, 140; Ellis, Paul’s Use of the Old Testament, 137; and James D. G. Dunn, Romans 9–16, WBC, vol. 38b (Dallas: Word, 1988), 540; LaRondelle, The Israel of God in Prophecy, 121; Bright, The Kingdom of God, 226–27. Commenting on Rom 9:6, Origen stated, “For if the judgment respecting the ‘Jew inwardly’ be adopted, we must understand that, as there is a ‘bodily’ race of Jews, so also is there a race of ‘Jews inwardly.’” Origen, First Principles 4.21, ANF 4:370.
[6] William Sanday and Arthur C. Headlam, The Epistle to the Romans, ICC (New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1923), 240. See also Douglas Moo, The Epistle to the Romans, NICNT (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1996), 574. About Rom 9:6, Gutbrod writes, “We are not told here that Gentile Christians are the true Israel. The distinction at R. 9:6 does not go beyond what is presupposed at Jn. 1:47. . . .” Walter Gutbrod, “’Israhl, k. t. l.,” in Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, vol. 3, ed. Gerhard Kittel (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1965), 387.
HEAVEN IS NOT OUR HOME
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The following article is located at: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/april/13.36.html
Excerpt Heaven Is Not Our Home The bodily resurrection is the good news of the gospel—and thus our social and political mandate. N. T. Wright | posted 3/24/2008 08:57AM There is no agreement in the church today about what happens to people when they die. Yet the New Testament is crystal clear on the matter: In a classic passage, Paul speaks of «the redemption of our bodies» (Rom. 8:23). There is no room for doubt as to what he means: God’s people are promised a new type of bodily existence, the fulfillment and redemption of our present bodily life. The rest of the early Christian writings, where they address the subject, are completely in tune with this. The traditional picture of people going to either heaven or hell as a one-stage, postmortem journey represents a serious distortion and diminution of the Christian hope. Bodily resurrection is not just one odd bit of that hope. It is the element that gives shape and meaning to the rest of the story of God’s ultimate purposes. If we squeeze it to the margins, as many have done by implication, or indeed, if we leave it out altogether, as some have done quite explicitly, we don’t just lose an extra feature, like buying a car that happens not to have electrically operated mirrors. We lose the central engine, which drives it and gives every other component its reason for working. When we talk with biblical precision about the resurrection, we discover an excellent foundation for lively and creative Christian work in the present world—not, as some suppose, for an escapist or quietist piety. Bodily Resurrection While both Greco-Roman paganism and Second Temple Judaism held a wide variety of beliefs about life beyond death, the early Christians, beginning with Paul, were remarkably unanimous on the topic. When Paul speaks in Philippians 3 of being «citizens of heaven,» he doesn’t mean that we shall retire there when we have finished our work here. He says in the next line that Jesus will come from heaven in order to transform the present humble body into a glorious body like his own. Jesus will do this by the power through which he makes all things subject to himself. This little statement contains in a nutshell more or less all Paul’s thought on the subject. The risen Jesus is both the model for the Christian’s future body and the means by which it comes. Similarly, in Colossians 3:1–4, Paul says that when the Messiah (the one «who is your life») appears, then you too will appear with him in glory. Paul does not say «one day you will go to be with him.» No, you already possess life in him. This new life, which the Christian possesses secretly, invisible to the world, will burst forth into full bodily reality and visibility. The clearest and strongest passage is Romans 8:9–11. If the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Jesus the Messiah, dwells in you, says Paul, then the one who raised the Messiah from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies as well, through his Spirit who dwells in you. God will give life, not to a disembodied spirit, not to what many people have thought of as a spiritual body in the sense of a nonphysical one, but «to your mortal bodies also.» Other New Testament writers support this view. The first letter of John declares that when Jesus appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. The resurrection body of Jesus, which at the moment is almost unimaginable to us in its glory and power, will be the model for our own. And of course within John’s gospel, despite the puzzlement of those who want to read the book in a very different way, we have some of the clearest statements of future bodily resurrection. Jesus reaffirms the widespread Jewish expectation of resurrection in the last day, and announces that the hour for this has already arrived. It is quite explicit: «The hour is coming,» he says, «indeed, it is already here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of Man, and those who hear will live; when all in the graves will come out, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment.» Life After Life After Death Here we must discuss what Jesus means when he declares that there are «many dwelling places» in his Father’s house. This has regularly been taken, not least when used in the context of bereavement, to mean that the dead (or at least dead Christians) will simply go to heaven permanently rather than being raised again subsequently to new bodily life. But the word for «dwelling places» here, monai, is regularly used in ancient Greek not for a final resting place, but for a temporary halt on a journey that will take you somewhere else in the long run. This fits closely with Jesus’ words to the dying brigand in Luke: «Today you will be with me in paradise.» Despite a long tradition of misreading, paradise here means not a final destination but the blissful garden, the parkland of rest and tranquility, where the dead are refreshed as they await the dawn of the new day. The main point of the sentence lies in the apparent contrast between the brigand’s request and Jesus’ reply: «Remember me,» he says, «when you come in your kingdom,» implying that this will be at some far distant future. Jesus’ answer brings this future hope into the present, implying of course that with his death the kingdom is indeed coming, even though it doesn’t look like what anyone had imagined: «Today you will be with me in paradise.» There will, of course, still be a future completion involving ultimate resurrection; Luke’s overall theological understanding leaves no doubt on that score. Jesus, after all, didn’t rise again «today,» that is, on Good Friday. Luke must have understood him to be referring to a state of being-in-paradise. With Jesus, the future hope has come forward into the present. For those who die in faith, before that final reawakening, the central promise is of being «with Jesus» at once. «My desire is to depart,» wrote Paul, «and be with Christ, which is far better.» Resurrection itself then appears as what the word always meant in the ancient world. It wasn’t a way of talking about life after death. It was a way of talking about a new bodily life after whatever state of existence one might enter immediately upon death. It was, in other words, life after life after death. What then about such passages as 1 Peter 1, which speaks of a salvation that is «kept in heaven for you» so that in your present believing you are receiving «the salvation of your souls»? Here, I suggest, the automatic assumption of Western Christianity leads us badly astray. Most Christians today, reading a passage like this, assume that it means that heaven is where you go to receive this salvation—or even that salvation consists in «going to heaven when you die.» The way we now understand that language in the Western world is totally different from what Jesus and his hearers meant and understood. For a start, heaven is actually a reverent way of speaking about God, so that «riches in heaven» simply means «riches in God’s presence.» But then, by derivation from this primary meaning, heaven is the place where God’s purposes for the future are stored up. It isn’t where they are meant to stay so that one would need to go to heaven to enjoy them. It is where they are kept safe against the day when they will become a reality on earth. God’s future inheritance, the incorruptible new world and the new bodies that are to inhabit that world, are already kept safe, waiting for us, so that they can be brought to birth in the new heavens and new earth. From Worship to Mission The mission of the church is nothing more or less than the outworking, in the power of the Spirit, of Jesus’ bodily resurrection. It is the anticipation of the time when God will fill the earth with his glory, transform the old heavens and earth into the new, and raise his children from the dead to populate and rule over the redeemed world he has made. If that is so, mission must urgently recover from its long-term schizophrenia. The split between saving souls and doing good in the world is not a product of the Bible or the gospel, but of the cultural captivity of both. The world of space, time, and matter is where real people live, where real communities happen, where difficult decisions are made, where schools and hospitals bear witness to the «now, already» of the gospel while police and prisons bear witness to the «not yet.» The world of space, time, and matter is where parliaments, city councils, neighborhood watch groups, and everything in between are set up and run for the benefit of the wider community, the community where anarchy means that bullies (economic and social as well as physical) will always win, where the weak and vulnerable will always need protecting, and where the social and political structures of society are part of the Creator’s design. And the church that is renewed by the message of Jesus’ resurrection must be the church that goes to work precisely in that space, time, and matter. The church claims this world in advance as the place of God’s kingdom, of Jesus’ lordship, and of the Spirit’s power. Councils and parliaments can and often do act wisely, though they will always need scrutiny and accountability, because they in turn may become agents of bullying and corruption. Thus the church that takes sacred space seriously (not as a retreat from the world but as a bridgehead into it) will go straight from worshiping in the sanctuary to debating in the council chamber; to discussing matters of town planning, of harmonizing and humanizing beauty in architecture, green spaces, and road traffic schemes; and to environmental work, creative and healthy farming methods, and proper use of resources. If it is true, as I have argued, that the whole world is now God’s holy land, we must not rest as long as that land is spoiled and defaced. This is not an extra to the church’s mission. It is central. The church that takes seriously the fact that Jesus is Lord of all will not just celebrate quietly every time we write the date on a letter or document, will not just set aside Sunday as far as humanly and socially possible as a celebration of God’s new creation, will not just seek to order its own life in an appropriate rhythm of worship and work. Such a church will also seek to bring wisdom to the rhythms of work in offices and shops, in local government, in civic holidays, and in the shaping of public life. These things cannot be taken for granted. The enormous shifts during my lifetime, from the whole town observing Good Friday and Easter, to those great days being simply more occasions for football matches and yet more televised reruns of old movies, are indices of what happens when a society loses its roots and drifts with prevailing social currents. The reclaiming of time as God’s good gift (as opposed to time as simply a commodity to be spent for one’s own benefit, which often means fresh forms of slavery for others) is not an extra to the church’s mission. It is central. Whatever is Holy One of the things I most enjoy about being a bishop is watching ordinary Christians (not that there are any «ordinary» Christians, but you know what I mean) going straight from worshiping Jesus in church to making a radical difference in the material lives of people down the street by running playgroups for children of single working moms; by organizing credit unions to help people at the bottom of the financial ladder find their way to responsible solvency; by campaigning for better housing, against dangerous roads, for drug rehab centers, for wise laws relating to alcohol, for decent library and sporting facilities, for a thousand other things in which God’s sovereign rule extends to hard, concrete reality. Once again, all this is not an extra to the mission of the church. It is central. This way of coming at the tasks of the church in terms of space, time, and matter leads directly to evangelism. When the church is seen to move straight from worship of God to affecting much-needed change in the world; when it becomes clear that the people who feast at Jesus’ table are the ones at the forefront of work to eliminate hunger and famine; when people realize that those who pray for the Spirit to work in and through them are the people who seem to have extra resources of love and patience in caring for those whose lives are damaged, bruised, and shamed—then it is natural for people to recognize that something is going on that they want to be part of. No single individual can attempt more than a fraction of this mission. That’s why mission is the work of the whole church, the whole time. Paul’s advice to the Philippians—even though he and they knew they were suffering for their faith and might be tempted to retreat from the world into a dualistic, sectarian mentality—was upbeat. «These are the things you should think through,» he wrote: «whatever is true, whatever is holy, whatever is upright, whatever is pure, whatever is attractive, whatever has a good reputation; anything virtuous, anything praiseworthy.» And in thinking through these things, we will discover more and more about the same Creator God whom we know in and through Jesus Christ and will be better equipped to work effectively not over against the world, but with the grain of all goodwill, of all that seeks to bring and enhance life. N. T. Wright is Bishop of Durham for the Church of England. This article is excerpted from his latest book, Surprised by Hope: Rethinking Heaven, the Resurrection, and the Mission of the Church (HarperOne). |
THE KINGDOM IS NOT THE CHURCH
By Robert T. Woodworth, U .S. A.
The Courier, Baltimore, Maryland
(The Kingdom Digest April 1978)
A hymn by Timothy Dwight in our hymnal goes:
«I love Thy Kingdom Lord,
The house of Thine abode,
The church our blest Redeemer saved
With His own precious blood»
It is a common error to equate the kingdom of God with the church. The church is the Bodyof Christ, made up of believers. It is not temporal nor material, but spiritual and eternal. The Kingdom of God is the application of a heavenly principle to human government on earth. The kingdom is political and geographical. It is comprised of a people, a place and a king. God’s kingdom will come on earth when God’s will is done on earth as it is in heaven. Christians have been taught to pray for this for 2000 years. (Matthew 6:10). Like the New Jerusalem, the Holy City, God’s kingdom is to come down from God out of heaven. (Revelation 21:2 & 10).
Heaven is where God is. The song-writer was right when he wrote, «Where Jesus is, ‘tis heaven there.» Heaven is the spiritual realm of God,but not the material abode of the godly.Unlike the kingdom, heaven has no physical, material, geographical or political entity. Nowhere in the Bible does it ever say that when we die, we go to heaven. The kingdom of God is not heaven. The kingdom of heaven is not in heaven. The heavenly kingdom is composed of an earthly realm and earthly people living by heavenly or divine principles.
The Kingdom of God (or heaven) was the most important subject of Christ’s earthly ministry. John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness saying,
«Repent ye, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand»- (Matthew 3:2)
When Jesus began to preach, He started with the same basic premise:
«Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand» – (Matthew 4:17)
And the kingdom of heaven is synonymous with the «kingdom of God» (as in Mark 1:14 & 15, 4:11, 9:1 & 47, 10:14 & 15, 23 -25, 12:34,14: 25,15: 43, Luke 8:10,12: 31,10:9,11:20,18:24). Where Matthew uses the term «kingdom of heaven» Mark, Luke and John use «kingdom of God»: Both terms refer constantly to a literal, material, geographical, physical, political, earthly realm containing good and bad elements and people destined to be cleansed, purged, purified and perfected into an ideal, plentiful, peaceful, glorious place for God’s redeemed people under their Redeemer and King!To equate this kingdom with the church or with heaven is to distort the Scriptures. The principles of this kingdom are spiritual, but the application of these ethereal principles to the earthly realm is very practical and powerful. The Companion Bible (Appendices 112,113, 114) contains some useful outlines to show the Scriptural distinction between the kingdom and the church. There are seven terms used to refer to this kingdom in the Bible and none of them refer to the church, the spiritual body of Christ.
One, «kingdom of heaven» is used only in Matthew 32 times, and whenever a parallel passage is found in another Gospel, the «kingdom of God» is used.
Two, «Kingdom of God» as used by the Gospel writers refers always to God’s sovereignty over all, His universal moral rule, from the beginning and without end.
Three, «Kingdom of the Father» (as in Matthew13:43 in the parables of the kingdom) relates to the rule of the righteous in the cleansing of the kingdom from impurities and offences.
Four, «Kingdom of His dear Son» is the Apostle Paul’s reference to the sovereignty of Christ as Creator over His creation and creatures (Ephesians l:10, 20, 5:5, and Colossians 1:13)
Five, «Kingdom of the Son of Man» describes the coming kingdom of Christ (Matthew 16:28) on the throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) for redeemed Israel forever (Daniel 7:13-14, 18, 22)
Six, «Everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ» is Peter’s term for the outward display of Christ’s glorious reign at His second coming which could be inwardly anticipated and experienced now (II Peter 1:11). Christ gave the keys or secret of this kingdom to Peter (Matthew 16:19)
Seven, finally the «Kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ» is used in Revelation 11:15 to portray prophetically the wonderful rule of the King of kings over the kingdoms of the world.
The Companion Bible Study Helps also lists these ten scriptural reasons why the kingdom of God cannot be equal to the church of Christ.
One, the subjects or citizens of the kingdom are called «heirs» to whom the Father gives the kingdom (James 2:5, Matthew 25:34, Luke 12:32). Nothing like this is said of the church. The members of the church are not heirs of the church; they are not given a church.
Two, Jesus said His disciples were to «receive the kingdom» (Luke 19:12) and be «appointed a kingdom» (Luke 22:29). This is never said of the church which belongs to Christ, the Head.
Three, the church’s officers and ministers are called pastors, elders, deacons, or teachers. (Ephesians 4:11, Acts 14:23, James 5:14, l Timothy 3:8-12). None of these terms are used of officials in the kingdom.
Four, the Greek «basileia» is translated to «kingdom» only four times in the plural, while the Greek word «ekklesia» is translated «church» 115 times and 36 times in the plural. There is no crossing over of meanings in these translations.
Five, Jesus speaks of the «children of the kingdom» (Matthew 13:38, 8:12). He never mentions the children of the church.
Six, the names of the church are never used of the kingdom: His Body (Ephesians l :23), Building, holy temple (2:21), one body, one Spirit (4:4),»members of His body, His flesh, His bones» (5:30), «House of God» (1 Timothy 3:15)
Seven, «Partakers of the heavenly calling» is a privilege of the members of the church (Hebrews 3:1), but the «saints» are to rule and reign with Christ over His kingdom (Daniel 7:18,22,27). They «take» the kingdom and «possess» it (Revelation 5:10, 20:4, 6).No such thing ever occurs in the church.
Eight, the church is now here on earth awaiting a heavenly call (Philippians 3:11, 14).The kingdom is not here yet but awaiting the King from heaven (Hebrews 2:8).(Note: It is here but not operative).
Nine, the church is a secret, a mystery hidden until the time it is to be revealed (Romans 16:25, Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:26).The Kingdom is the subject of much prophecy and many parables, (Matthew 13: 2, 31, 33, 45, 47) revealed to the disciples of Christ (v.13-14).
Ten, the characteristics are different:
KINGDOM |
CHURCH |
Christ is king |
Christ is head |
Saints are citizens |
Member of body |
Geographical place |
Universal |
Physical |
Spiritual |
Govemed by laws |
Covered by a creed |
Contains good and bad |
Righteous only |
Imperfect at first |
Perfect, holy |
To be cleansed by blood |
Clean by His blood |
Conducts warfare |
Condition of peace |
The church is sanctified by the Word, and without spot or wrinkle or blemish (Ephesians 5:26,27).
The kingdom is infiltrated by the devil, contains weeds who are children of the wicked (Matthew 13:38,39). The kingdom is to be cleansed and the wicked and
offensive things removed (13: 41, 47-50).
Jesus told us to seek first this kingdom of God and other things would follow (Luke 12:31). Remember that the kingdoms of this world are to become the kingdom
of our Lord Jesus Christ, and He shall reign for ever and ever (Revelation 11:15).The good news that proclaims the coming of the King and His kingdom is called the gospel of the kingdom (Matthew 4:23, 9:35). But the kingdom ofGod is not the church.
of our Lord Jesus Christ, and He shall reign for ever and ever (Revelation 11:15).The good news that proclaims the coming of the King and His kingdom is called the gospel of the kingdom (Matthew 4:23, 9:35). But the kingdom ofGod is not the church.
WHY CHRISTIANS WILL SUFFER «GREAT TRIBULATION»
The sequel to The End Times Passover, Why Christians Will Suffer «Great Tribulation» sees author & scholar Joe Ortiz picking up right where he left off: presenting thoroughly researched, cogent counterpoints to the standard arguments of biblical traditionalists. Just as with his first offering, readers will find Ortiz’s follow up tome quite informative – if not somewhat distressing.
The «tribulation» to which Ortiz refers, of course, is, according to the Christian religion, the time of great suffering that precedes the return of Jesus Christ. Traditionally, theologians and scholars have posited that followers of the Christian faith will be spared when the times of tribulation emerge. Supposedly, all true believers will be instantaneously removed from the earth in a flash, an event commonly known as the «Rapture.» Following their deliverance, the world left behind will experience years of agonizing toil and torment, setting the stage for Armageddon (the ultimate battle between good and evil), the defeat of Satan and his armies, and the subsequent eternal reign of the true biblical Kingdom.
In «Tribulation», though, Ortiz presents convincing evidence that followers of the Christian faith will not be so conveniently spared, and he also expounds on the disturbing reasons why. Relying on sound scriptural analysis and well-researched conclusions, Ortiz offers airtight, meticulous explanations regarding the true meanings behind biblical references to the «End Times» – even if such explanations provide little comfort.
In recent times, countless individuals from all walks of life have sought to cast off the stranglehold of traditional religious dogma, instead seeking to learn the truth of all things for themselves. Why Christians Will Suffer «Great Tribulation» is a highly recommended starting point for such disillusioned souls, offering sound, factual interpretations of many previous legends & fables heretofore mistakenly applied. Though it sometimes gets a bit deep for the average casual reader, the strength & power of Ortiz’s arguments make his book required reading for believers and non-believers alike.
Click Here To Learn More About Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation
Official Apex Reviews Interview: Joseph Ortiz (The End Times Passover, Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation)
Apex Reviews: Joe, thanks for joining us for this interview. We’re looking forward to learning more about your books.
You spent over 20 years researching and compiling both books. Why are you so passionate about the topics you address, and where does that passion come from?
Joseph Ortiz: My passion comes from my early life, one where I have always been inquisitive about all things. My schoolmates used to tease me about my always asking the teachers questions, inferring I was kissing up to them. I wasn’t, I genuinely wanted answers. Secondly it also came from my experiences as a journalist, and my disappointment to find that not all we read in newspapers (and books), see on television or hear on the radio is true.
Therefore, when I first became a Christian (in 1975) I got really excited because my pastors and Bible teachers told me that God is truth and the Bible is His true word. However, when I started reading various Christian books and commentaries, I saw great differences between their books and the Bible. So who was I to trust, the commentators or the Bible?
Well, the Bible itself states (in 2 Timothy 3:16-17) that all ’scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.’ Therefore I had to trust what the Bible says. However, believing and trusting what the Bible says and being able to interpret it correctly, meant that I had to dig deep and study key words correctly to understand their exact meaning. So, how did I find out what certain words truly meant? For one thing, I used an etymological approach.
What is Etymology? Etymology is the history of a linguistic form as a word shown by tracing its development since its earliest recorded occurrence in the language where it is found, by tracing its transmission from one language to another, by analyzing it into its component parts, by identifying its cognates in other languages, or by tracing it and its cognates to a common ancestral form in an ancestral language.
Without belaboring my answer to your initial question, I’ll use the etymological example of the word «left» as is used in Luke 17:34, which is the basis for Tim LaHaye’s Left Behind thesis, that sinners will be «left behind» at the Rapture and believers will be «taken» to heaven for seven years while all hell breaks loose here on earth. If examined carefully (through an etymological approach) we find that the word «left» actually means «to forgive;» therefore, LaHaye’s premise that bad folks are left behind and believers are taken to heaven has no biblical nor academic foundation whatsoever. That one example alone should debunk LaHaye’s Left Behind doctrine; however, I have about 150 other examples in my two books to nail shut LaHaye’s Left Behind doctrinal coffin once and for all.
AR: After all the years of research and analysis, at what point did you decide it was finally time to bring the book to the light of day?
JO: I actually finished the manuscript around 1999; however from 2000 to 2004, I perused these two books over and over and over again, cross-checking, cross-referencing the data to the point of exhaustion. Finally, around May of 2004, I felt a peace about the information I present in these two books, and decided to place them on the Internet, developed a web site and began giving it away for free. After about three years, I decided to send it out to publishers to get more exposure and Author House Publishers became my official publisher.
AR: You offer very sound scriptural and historical evidence to back up your various claims. How were you able to come to such definitive conclusions?
JO: Once again, by using the etymological approach, figures of speech, Hebrew and Greek dictionaries, concordances, as well as reading hundreds of books on the same subject, mostly written by premillenial dispensationalists (like Tim LaHaye, John Hagee, John Walvoord, Hal Lindsey) and others who believe in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture and Left Behind doctrine. I began to examine what those writers claimed and matched their data to the Bible’s and it didn’t jibe. Actually, I was hoping their thesis could be confirmed because I kind of like the idea of a being whisked to heaven while all hell breaks loose here on earth. But that will not the case.
AR: Please share with our readers precisely why you think followers of the Christian faith will have to endure the «Great Tribulation»?
JO: The apostle Paul told us (in the book of Acts 14:22) that we must go through much tribulation in order to enter into the kingdom of God; but unfortunately, way too many Christians today would rather believe we are immune to persecution mainly because we are Christians. I provide a great amount of scripture, especially in «Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation,» to show that today’s believer is not immune to persecution. For that matter, hundreds of thousands of Christians throughout the world are suffering great tribulation as we speak; however, American Christians, especially, believe that we will be protected from persecution because (up to recently, when we experienced 911) we have become accustomed to a predominately secure life in the USA. Many American Christians rightly believe what is stated in 1 Thessalonians 4:9, which is that Christians are not appointed to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, which is true. However, there is a big difference between God’s wrath on the unbeliever and the antichristian world’s persecution of Christians. We are and have been destined for persecution. Why should modern day Christians receive greater treatment from the world than the millions who have been martyred for Christ throughout history?
AR: Our reviewer noted that, while informative, many of your claims are quite disturbing. Have you gotten any reactions from readers who think that your approach is too depressing or amounts to «doomsday prophecy»? If so, what has been your response?
JO: Yes, I have gotten a lot of heat from many who say that we (Christians) are not destined for wrath. Listen, truly walking with Christ is not going to be a picnic in the park. Christ told us to pick up our cross and follow Him. The cross is an instrument of death. We (Christians) are coming to a point in history where we will be asked by world oppressors to renounce our faith, or to choose between Christ and the world. You can read about these accounts where Christians are being killed today because they are standing up for Jesus in countries like China, Bangladesh, Indonesia, etc. In other words, are we American Christians prepared to die for standing up for Christ rather than serve another god, such as the gods of money, military and political power, or other heathen religions?
I share a great example of this with my readers in my second book (Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation), where I speak about three guys (Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego) who would not serve King Nebuchadnezzar’s gods or worship the image of gold he had set up. They were given a choice: Honor the king’s giant gold statue or be thrown in the fiery furnace. The three guys responded and said they didn’t need to defend themselves before the King in this matter. They told the King that if they are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God they serve is able to save them from it, and he will rescue them. The amazing thing is what they said next.
’Even if God does not save, we want you to know, king, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.’
King Nebuchadnezzar got furious with these three fanatics he ordered the furnace heated seven times hotter than usual and commanded some of the strongest soldiers in his army to tie up the three servants and threw them into the blazing furnace. The king’s command was so urgent and the furnace so hot that the flames of the fire killed the soldiers who took these three men, firmly tied, and pushed them into the blazing furnace.
The end result is the three guys didn’t burn.
This particular story is an example of a theme that is repeated throughout the Bible, where we see patriarchs like Noah, Daniel, Joshua, David, et al who are divinely protected by God when they place their complete trust in Him. These examples are what my books are based upon, that God is able to rescue His children without having to Rapture them to heaven. God takes us through trials, not out of them. Will some Christians die from persecution? Yes, thousands have throughout history and thousands today and that many more tomorrow. But, like the Apostle Stephen, the first Christian martyr in history, those who give their lives so others can live, as Christ did, will be rewarded in greater fashion than those who cower as tribulation increases.
AR: We can only imagine the kinds of criticisms you’ve had to endure as a result of the points you make. Have you encountered much resistance from religious traditionalists?
JO: Yes! Those who believe in the Left Behind and Pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrines are pretty adamant about their belief system. I have challenged them to read the book and then respond. They say they haven’t the time, or they are convinced their belief system is sound enough. Yet, I have been blessed by those who have read the books and we have received from them glowing testimonies, including folks like Dave MacPherson, Rick Wiles, and Richard Deem and now from Dominique Sessons.
At the beginning (as I was conducting my initial research back in 1984) I could not find anyone who had written about the same evidence I present in my two books. Only recently (in the last 4 to 5 years) have I found other authors that have come to basically the same conclusions as I do, including authors such as Steve Wohlberg, Ted Noel, Stephen Sizer, Barbara Rossing and other emerging writers.]
AR: In light of all the resounding evidence that you present, what advice can you offer to those who still refuse to abandon the traditionalist dogma that was inculcated into them at an early age?
JO: Goodness! It’s very difficult to change people’s minds about their current belief system, which makes my work seem even slower and harder. Yet, those folks who have taken the time to read all the sound evidence I provide have come back and said they now have a greater understanding of God’s end times program. I would encourage them to at least read the book, and then come back and share with me their concerns. If they can present evidence that refutes what I have presented, and it can be proven vis a vis the etymological approach I took, then I would consider making corrections. I tell folks that my books are not the end of the eschatological debate that still roars in evangelical circles. However, those who are secure about their relationship with God have no need to fear or listen to another point of view. If anything, I believe they will grow in greater faith!
AR: What has your experience been like with Author House?
JO: Good! I have a strong background in journalism and working as a publicist; therefore, after they sent out their initial press release about my books, I chose to handle those duties myself. A book, as you well know, is like your child; you know it best and also know the character and image of the books you want to project to the public.
AR: You’ve actually been involved in quite a number of different activities over the course of your life. Please share more with our readers about Joseph Ortiz, the man of many talents.
JO: Goodness! I believe (more so now) that God has His hand on me from an early age. Not that I was a religious person throughout my life. Other than a few years of Catholic training up to my early teens, I burned the candle at both ends until I accepted Christ in 1975, which was a major turning point in my life. Another turning point in my life came earlier when I landed on KABC Talk Radio in 1971. I wasn’t looking for a broadcasting career; I was just at the right place at the right time. Someone threw me the broadcasting football and I’ve been running towards the goal line ever since. I parlayed that opportunity into a very successful broadcasting, civil service, teaching and public relations career. However, throughout that entire journey, I was consumed with researching and writing this book. There were years where I spent 80 percent of my time to the project, and other times 30 to 40 percent due to supporting a family. However, from June 2000 until May of 2004, while I managed a homeless shelter in Palm Springs for 16 hours a day, seven days a week for about three and a half years without a day off, after work, totally exhausted, that’s when I studied and wrote the best portions of the book. God had my attention like never before and that’s when the books illuminated.
After I finished the final editing (in May 2004) I shared the manuscripts with renown authors like Ralph Woodrow and Dave MacPherson (experts in the eschatological genre), who read the books and encouraged me to get them out there.
Now, I’m semi-retired but still do some writing for various magazines and newspapers throughout the country; a little PR for charities that deal with drug abuse, homelessness and unwed mothers, and I also manage a few blogs and my two web sites, promoting the books every chance I get.
AR: How can our readers learn more about you, your writings, and your various other efforts?
JO: I would refer them to either one of my two web sites and all they need to know (and more) is accessible:
http://groups.msn.com/TheEndTimesPassover
http://groups.msn.com/JoeOrtizAssociates
AR: Any final thoughts you’d like to share?
JO: Yes! We are living in precarious times. The world is rapidly changing as never before. Many Christians especially believe that the answer lies with new leadership and new changes in our government and then things will turn out alright. What I have been fortunate to have learned (having spent over 30 years in the political arena) is that mankind’s problems will never be solved by governments or any secular philosophy. And it won’t be changed either by those professing Christians who promote strong military might to solve the world’s problems, or attempting to rid ourselves from the implied threat from radical fundamentalists and religious zealots, whether they hoist and carry a purported Christian, Judaic or Muslim banner.
My two books provide the evidence as to what believers should be doing today, and what their attitude should be concerning their family, community and members of their congregation. It describes the reality the God does not want His children to play church or religion, but rather to serve those closest to them. To do whatever they can to help them carry their crosses as well as our own. It’s not going to be easy. But, as the famous Apostle Paul stated in Romans 8:36-39, while portions of my books may appear like gloom and doom, people have to keep it all in perspective, because everything turns out OK in the end: «As it is written, for your sake we face death all day long. We are considered as sheep to be slaughtered. No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.»
AR: Thanks again, Joe, and best of continued success to you in all your endeavors!
JO: My pleasure!
EL BLOG DEL APOLOGISTA CRISTIANO/ INGº. MARIO OLCESE SANGUINETI (LIMA/PERÚ) 
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